Intrada Soundtrack Forum

I know that each of us have our own "wishlist" of titles we would like, and Intrada is often trying to do their best in finding those 'niche' albums that we all want. It seems, though, that inevitably you can't make everyone happy and despite all the hard work, research, business and fine tuning that goes in to each album someone is going to complain that it wasn't what they wanted or how they wanted it.

It got me thinking. How much does it cost to produce a small quantity of a licensed album? One of the things I really like about Intrada is how accessible the production team is. If we want to request a title they want to know about it. They share upcoming releases and discuss any analysis or reactions to those albums. With a company that consumer friendly, perhaps there is opportunity for private consumers to fund their 'dream' album. What kind of involvement it would take to produce an album is something I don't know. Would a label like Intrada ever have a program or internship set up to help train and share with others the process and reward of such work...along with getting new albums out under the Intrada banner? It could be an opportunity for growth at Intrada.

Just a quick thought; would Intrada ever accept solicitations for production of albums?

If the masters for The Town That Dreaded Sundown were to surface in some garage in Arkansas I'll throw a few dollars into the deal.

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"I used to worry about losing my mind. Now that I've lost it I don't worry about it anymore." -Wavy Gravy

Intrada has probably grown about as much as possible for such a niche market, and what they are currently doing is no doubt keeping them very busy.

Is your question pertaining mostly to getting the highly obscure stuff released? If so, with so many releases per year I imagine that we'll see more and more of those titles crop up eventually. Don't be too concerned about contributing the cost of a car to get a favorite obscure score produced just yet.

Hmmm... should I buy a new Ford Focus or fund a release of Oliver Nelson's score for Skullduggery?

If it's more about revisiting a score just to have a different assembly suited to a particular customer's taste, which your post also seems to imply a little, then I think that is a bit silly and a waste of time. But, that's just me.

I can think of hundreds of scores I would love to hear, and there is no way Intrada alone can produce all of them within the next few years - and that doesn't account for everyone else's wishlist. I'm excited to see what else Intrada is working on, but was curious if they have ever thought about expanding their work to include more private participation.

I don't want anyone to remix anything, and I certainly wouldn't know how to do any of that technical side of album production - but I know a few obscure scores way off everyone's radar I would gladly sponsor production of. With the accessibility and fun spirit of community I find on this message board from Roger and others I thought it would be an interesting question.

It is an interesting question and I definitely understand your desire for more obscure premieres; there are many that I want as well. The thing is we have to be realistic about fulfillment of these wants and only expect a small portion of them to get released, not every one of them.

There are some possible issues with private involvement to increase production. One issue is that the studios don't seem to be the speediest about approvals, perhaps Paramount and MGM excluded, and probably would not embrace the idea of a label's customers dictating what ought to be done. Another issue is that these albums are not cheap to transfer and license. Also, the market will become even more flooded if this idea were to gain any kind of traction and thereby albums would sell much fewer copies than if they were released through the usual course.

Disneyfella, I think it's a good idea to bring up. Costs vs. projected return is what defeats a lot of the more obscure titles in many label's minds I think, and if you're willing to pay a substantial part of the bills I'd be surprised if someone wasn't willing to work with you on it.

I know for a fact that Mr. Fitzpatrick of Tadlow has offered on multiple occasions to produce new recordings of people's favorite scores (on pretty short notice, too!) if they are willing to foot the bill. So far the only person to take him up on it appears to be Luc Van de Ven of Prometheus Recordings, which seems to have ceased production on non-rerecordings. Check out the Tadlow website at www.tadlowmusic.com -- they have released some original tracks in addition to their new recordings too.

I know that the gang at Tribute Film Classics are also eager to continue more recordings on their label if they are financially supported. Their last two recordings, Herrmann's Battle of Neretva and Steiner's Adventures of Don Juan/Arsenic and Old Lace, were both mostly funded by Craig Spaulding of Screen Archives and his partner.

Yavar

Interesting topic. For some of us who have been frugal over many years and actually saved a little money, we ought to be able to put down at least some money to help produce projects we truly believe in. I've made it clear to a couple of classical conductors and producers that if they tackle certain orchestral projects/composers (the works of early American composer Anthony Philip Heinrich or early 20th century American composer Henry F. Gilbert), I'd like to help out by putting $5,000 into it. Might not be much help but it still might pay for a few things. I feel just as strongly, say, about a re-recording of a good-sized suite of music from Miklos Rozsa's 1947 score "Desert Fury." I've heard tapped-out producers of such projects say it enough: if you want something re-recorded, you ought to be willing to help fund it.

Re-recordings are an entirely different thing. I believe those are much more expensive and generally don't sell nearly as well as releases of original recordings, so it makes lots of sense to solicit individual funding in those cases. I remember seeing quotes of around $40,000 just to get one score recorded.

A label like Intrada is involved in a daily grind of getting score after score after score released, so they are probably too busy to further increase production even with the help of outside funding. They have their business going in full swing and it is all presumably working well enough for them.

Granted, there are special cases like with Junior Bonner where transfer costs are said to be considerably more than usual, and all of those Canadian recordings where union fees price projects outside of reason.

When all of the traditional fan favorites from the 80s-onward become depleted, we just might see a shift in the market where these obscure scores become much more viable for the label.

One area that may be illuminated here is that the bulk of the studios will not license to "private" parties or partner them with existing labels for the simple reason that there are serious liability issues that can arise, especially in regards to royalty obligations, publishing fees, union payments, copyright protections and whatnot. It could become a studio attorney's nightmare.

So you're really talking about just co-financing projects with the label directly. In this case, it's mostly that the marketplace is already pretty well flooded with albums to scores both high profile and obscure. And the processes for getting these countless projects across the finish lines are already bottle necked in the extreme. When we started this ball rolling in 1985, that wasn't the case. But with so many players at the table now, and the handful of licensors already weary of the onslaught, it would be difficult to justify tying up even more production time and costs as well as all of the other obstacles that have already been mentioned, just to get yet even more albums out into the hands of you incredibly-generous-but-typically-not-billionaire supporters who are working so hard just to keep this wonderful stuff happening as it is. In a sense, your newly minted obscurities would be competing for attention with the very label you would be theoretically partnering with.

On a single case basis, someone might "donate" funds to make a personal favorite obscurity become available, but it gets tricky when one includes the sharing of income (if any) that has to go to the licensors and publishers and unions and composers or estates and all of that fun stuff... to say nothing of the inherent production and marketing costs. So now you're mostly just talking about donating your money for an otherwise cool cause. I wouldn't equate it with donating money to help victims of the latest typhoon but it would be a kind of neat idea. But all those other hurdles like the flooded market and swamped licensors desperately needed to clear other projects and so on and so forth would still remain a hurdle.

Regarding re-recordings: that's an easier process to work with, of course. You mostly just need a label to cooperate with. In this area, we've had people offer to help finance a number of cool projects, a definitive stereo Captain From Castile here, a reconstruction of Joan Of Arc there, a new look at Black Patch and Face Of A Fugitive here, sensational stereo re-recordings of every Steiner western score there... you get the idea. But someone still has to do a massive amount of music preparation as well as tackle some formidable costs - while the investors have to accept that they and their label partner will lose a lot of money, to say nothing of time and other production resources.

But imaginative minds and resourceful pocketbooks can overcome those hurdles and create some terrific re-recording possibilities. It's not a legal nightmare, just an area where the private investors need to be realistic and plan on making donations that amount to film score charities.

Since this topic is mostly in regards to personal favorite obscurities that are being bypassed, I'll be honest and admit I have little idea how many copies would sell of those titles. And just how obscure? One's I'd want? I think now of Stephen O'Reilly's actual score for Dingaka (1965) or Pat William's music for the 1970 TV movie San Francisco International Airport or Frank Skinner's obscure score for Back To God's Country or John Dankworth's music for Sands Of The Kalahari or any number of early Marlin Skiles film scores and so on and so forth. Would you folks buy all of these? Any of them?

It's all very noble to think about. But beyond that, it's not very practical.
--Doug

Interesting discussion, including some of the titles Doug mentioned where backing or partnerships or donations have been offered for re-recordings. Excellent. I had always thought about the idea of offering to donate money for one good-sized suite, then allowing another lover of the same composer to donate money for yet another suite -- with the result that you suddenly might be a fourth or fifth or sixth of the way toward actually funding the re-recording, depending on where it was recorded and how much trouble reconstruction was. (My admittedly ballsy idea for Rozsa's "Desert Fury" -- do a longish suite of it with a suite from another of Rozsa's neglected film noirs or maybe even one of his other "sand" epics, such as "Five Graves to Cairo" or "Sahara" -- an idea my friend John Morgan and I discussed in earnest back when we were working together on the Marco Polo film music series in the 1990s. Gone are the days!)

Even though re-recordings of great film scores have pretty much dried up (with a few key exceptions!), there's no doubt we're still living in something of a heyday of film music with so many wonderful projects available I never thought we'd see. And yet so much remains to be done. When Intrada produced an album of archival soundtracks by Leith Stevens for the classic George Pal sci-fi flicks a couple of years ago, I think it was Jeff Bond who said that, as wonderful as the soundtracks were, they really called out for re-recordings. He was right. Fact is, some of us have been talking about that since the 1970s!

A friend of mine from McKeesport, PA and I trade fantasies about taking a 100 million plus lottery and going in to Intrada, or Lalaland, or Kritzerland, or Morgan and Stromberg (or even the almighty Oz, Varese) and saying "Here are some things I'd love to see released, the funds are at your disposal, and I don't care if I ever see penny one back on the investment." Now that's OUR dream situation.

(Get ready for BILLY GOLDENBERG AT UNIVERSAL, Volumes 1 through whatever!)

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Jim Phillips

Sometimes, as Doug pointed out, it's not even a question of money but one of permissions and rights. You can throw all the money you want at a label, but it doesn't guarantee that the studio or rights holder for the title in question will even license it out. And sometimes you don't even know who holds the rights.