Intrada Soundtrack Forum

Disagree. Go to a live concert and tell me what you hear. Does the harp come from behind you, I think not. And there is no left or right as far as strings are concerned unless you put cotton in your right ear. The piano comes from the center which means your ears are both working the same. Maybe this surround system is good for movies but not Rimsky-Korsakov.
Thomas

_________________
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance...that principle is contempt prior to investigation.
Herbert Spencer

A multi channels mix is not made to emulate a live orchestra concert or to make you feel in front of an orchestra, but to make the different instruments sound more discrete and to plunge you inside the music as a whole new different listening experience. You have the right to dislike the experience, but some people actually like being surrounded by the music they love, and feeling like being a part of it. It's different.

I can't say I agree with that, because from what I've heard most film scores are indeed mixed to sound like a concert hall, with the rear channels used mainly for reverb and to give the music that wider sense of sound.

It's only some scores like "A Beautiful Mind" or "Spider-Man" and its first sequel that get more creative with the surround mixing.

"Mind" makes use of five pianos throughout the score, so those five pianos are placed among the speaker soundstage.

The "Spider-Man" scores, at least in some cues take a different approach in that many cues feature only strings and choir in the rear channels but no brass. All of which are present in the front channels, though.

If some of you are saying you don't like 'flutes out of the left rear' or something like that, I don't know what you're listening to but I've never heard any film music recorded to be that gimmicky with the surround mixing.

I'll use the cue "Leaving Port" from the Titanic album as an example of what's in each set of channels:

-The left and right front channels are obviously where the bulk of activity is, so in these two you hear the synthesized choir, orchestra, and electronic rhythms. The stereo album is basically these channels downmixed with the center. There is minimal snare drum in the right speaker, because it's only there to support...

-...the center speaker. This is the most interesting channel for this particular score, because with all the electronics, this center channel is completely devoid of them. There is no synthesized choir, no electronic rhythms. The center speaker is the best place to hear this score without the choir (which if you would like an audio example of, let me know). While you hear the full orchestra in the center, it's more subdued because the center is home to all woodwinds and percussion - the right front and left rear speakers act as a reverb for the snare drums that are in this speaker. In cues where you hear the solo vocalist Sissel, her voice is located here and reverberated through out the soundstage.

This cue, like "Southampton" and "Take Her to Sea, Mr. Murdoch" all feature a nice effect with the shimmering chimes: They start in the center channel and literally "rise" behind you in the rear channels. You'll notice on the regular stereo CD those chimes are limited to the center of the stereo mix only, because the rear channels aren't there so the effect is lost.

-The rear surround channels act as reverb and support to the front channels:

The synthesized choir and orchestra are here, but with a heavier, wetter mix to them. Therefore some of the finer details aren't as easy to make out. The reverbed snare drums on the left rear speaker are also heavier, and there are no electronic rhythms as there are in the front stereo channels. Solo vocals fill these rears with strong reverb. The rising, shimmering chimes are expand very widely from the center channel.

-There is an LFE channel for every cue.

Anyway, this is pretty much what you hear in the surround presentation of this score.

Of course there are 2 ways of using the rear channels :
1) reverberation of the front channels, as you said
2) separation of the instruments (which is often very subtle) and special effects from a particular channel to another (I was thinking of the quadriphonic recordings of Pink Floyd for example) to make you feel inside the music

Most of the film scores presented in 5.1 are a combination of those two points.

Recommend then a piece from Tchaikovsky that was recorded in a concert hall for this surround listening and I'll give it a try. Not movie music please.
Thomas

_________________
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance...that principle is contempt prior to investigation.
Herbert Spencer

My point Nick as to why it is not all recorded in surround.

Thomas

_________________
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance...that principle is contempt prior to investigation.
Herbert Spencer