Intrada Soundtrack Forum

Very interesting topic, thanks to Doug's initial text. I share a lot of what have been said here.

I have never be part of the people who think "too much is too much". There is a "program" touch on every evoluted cd player remote control !

In another hand, yes, old good albums are so good that I go back to them frequently (i.e. THE FURY).

I only wanted to point that Giacchino's STAR TREK CD is in my opinion one of those terrific old fashion albums.

Yes it lacks of a lot of music (and of course I would love a complete score one day !) but I really listen to it weekly.

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I guess I'm going to have to find a nice image of the jolly roger to use as my avatar. Maybe it's the result of too often buying a soundtrack album only to find that a particularly treasured piece of music was missing, but I'm a big fan of C&C presentation. Case in point was the release of the expanded Star Trek II. After one listen I sold my old album presentation CD because I knew I would never listen to it again. I also haven't listened to the original album releases of the LOTR scores since the CR boxes were released. Granted some of the music may fall into the filler category but at least you have the choice of whether you listen to it or not. One man's meat really is another man's poison. As other posters have pointed out, the archival presentation gives you the freedom to personalise your album. On the other hand if an album CD leaves out your favourite cue, you're up listening experience creek without a paddle.

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Andy

Ultimately, while one can indeed make an album out of film score material, the fact that the enthusiasts may not appreciate that effort is, to me, understandable. The problem is, of course, that unlike other genres of music from which albums are created, the film score is out there for us to hear. And it is extremely frustrating if the very reason why you ran out and bought the score for a film isn't present on the record you bring home. Music is, after all, an emotional art form, and one can't always predict what will make an impression on a listener and why.

On the other hand, there are often a lot of times when the album format makes for a more consistently engaging listening experience. As has been pointed out earlier, LPs had to have an end of side one and a beginning of side two, which meant that there was rarely if ever a lag in the middle of the album. Furthermore, I am also aware that sometimes a cue running :30 may or may not be something that will contribute. It may be short but vital.

And yet how much one may or may not like the resulting album depends entirely upon whether their tastes coincide with the producers' on the project. I've often said that while I typically enjoy the albums that Elliot Goldenthal puts together, I dislike the albums that John Williams does (original film tracks, I mean; I like his re-recordings such as Jaws and E.T. very much). They're both doing the same thing: restructuring the scores for the CD format by resequencing cues and mixing them together. I like the way Goldenthal does it, and am satisfied with the presentation even if he leaves off a few notable cues, while the way that Williams does it almost invariably leaves me dissatisfied and yearning for that one cue that truly made me love this score.

It should also be pointed out that those original albums were sometimes put together based upon limitations rather than artistic considerations. The master for the album needed to be delivered before the score was finished recording (Thunderball, The Mummy Returns). This important cue wasn't in good enough condition for inclusion on the soundtrack album ("Helicopter Sequence" from Superman). Gargantuan re-use fees prevented the inclusion of several tracks with overdubbed choirs (The Hunt for Red October, Air Force One). Hell, massive re-use fees preventing the release of more than a half hour of music (most of the Varèse releases of the 90s).

I do like the idea of the "album" program followed by everything else to give us the best of both worlds. FSM discs often provide the entire score with instructions on how to program the original album configuration. I can imagine a few moments of silence between the finale of the album program and the beginning of the bonus material.

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"As heard in the movie" is not always intended or even good. Some cues in films are edited to fit a scene after some editing, so you are hearing a truncated cue. I'll take the original un-edited recording anyday.


Some cues even have new parts inserted just to extend a cue, interrupting the flow (take the 6:15 "Pawnee Attack" cue from "Dances With Wolves" as an example).


Some films litterally have bits and peices of cues taken apart, mashed together, edited, truncated, beyond recognition of what was heard in the film.


Then we have aother example; as I recall, "Ishtar" had over half it's score not used in the film and since there has been no CD release, none of us have heard Grusin's full score. Would you really just want what was in the movie and never hear almost 50% more score?
Thre are some others, but I couldn't recall the film names at this time.



And of course cues which have sudden, abrupt edits, fade-ins/fade-outs during, cues dailed out before completion (take that cue from around the end of "Dirty Harry"; thankfully fixed by Lalo's release on his label).


Then you have scores where cues from other scors are tracked in. The most famous recent example of that was "Kingdom of Heaven" which had cues from various films, like "The Crow" (revell) and "The 13th Warrior" (Goldsmith) tracked in.

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